“The game was better when it wasn’t all about speed and efficiency” is a sentiment I hear ALOT, let’s talk about it eh?

Music used, In order:

Grizzly Hills Day music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpyInx0ldfo
Shattrath music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH2IeI1BxIs
Outro – A small track from Winterspring, “Winterspring 5”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDOp-IlsO6I&t=1620s @27min


#wowclassic #wow #warcraft #classicwow #gold



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  • No. People's jealousy of better players ruins the game for themselves. WoW has virtually no exclusive content that other players can deny you from. Everyone can do everything they want at their own pace except for two relatively inconsequential world bosses and rank 14. If other people wanting to dedicate more effort than you bothers you… that is a you problem.

  • Short answer, yes.
    Long answer. You have people parsing 1 mechanic raid bosses that were killed within 4 days of the game launching by lv 58's in green quest gear. Played by people who's rotation is to push 1-3 buttons at the most. While standing perfectly still, in the exact same gear, as the exact same races, with the only variance being their ping and their dedication to spending gold on buffs.

    What I'm getting at is minmax players in a game like this, are fucking clowns. And everyone is legit laughing at you if you parse this game.
    "Holy shit look how big my numbers are" says orc warrior #83,492 with the same exact gear and talent tree as everyone else, but has dragonslayer buff so he's doing 3% more than 90% of the other players. He's so amazing at the game guys.

  • I stopped playing classic cause of this, the guild I was in put up really strict raid rules that revolved around: if you are specced into arms or any subpar specs you get kicked from the raid, if you don't have 5 major and reg fire resist pots you lose all ability to roll on gear and if you are a guildie you will get replaced with a pug. Basically having to blow approx 50g or so on all the dps and prot/resist pots you can get, as well as if you are a warrior you cannot roll on warrior gear even if you want to prot tank as an offspec, as well as no joking around during raid night cause it's srs business cutting edge raiding.

    Just the constant elitism in the community is insane, too much zoomer mentalities going on for my taste, I love the game but that killed all enjoyment for me, would love to give it a chance, maybe roll alliance this time around to see if it's different over there.

  • I was one of those who spammed spellcleave up to 60, started grinding gold for 2 weeks and proceeded to buy over 60 black lotuses and copious amounts of herbs, elemental fire&earth before my epic mount, because at the time everything was cheap (like 20g for each black lotus). Now I've changed to a relaxed playstyle participating in weekly resets, doing some dungeons a week with irl friends and guildies sometimes playing other games as well. Since I know I don't have to worry about farming for consumables in several months.

  • Yes, the min Maxers are a problem, my guy is 57 and after he pops to 60 I'll roll another character with my friend, I'm not interested in the bis bull shit/ raid schedule/ rush through content, just have a good time, I often have to tell people to calm down when playing, the min max attitude ruins the game, even the term "meta" is inappropriate as it implies a locked in way to play, nuts to that

  • I'm still not 60, been playing a lot of alts and I'm just enjoying the progress. I only play a few hours a day. Yeah, just call me a filthy casual, I don't mind. This is how I like to play the game. 😉

  • I play the game with addons. But i never used layerjumping, i never farmed dungeons in cleaves. I lvl casualy. I play for the journey and rather try off-meta things and having fun.
    Both my friends that did rush have quit and burned out. 3 others that played as me still play. For me thats the answere

  • I’m not 15 anymore. I don’t have time for minmax, particularly weekly world buffs from ony, tribute, and songflower. That time doesn’t count in a speed run but it counts against me IRL. I can gather consumables anytime but not world buffs, so it’s a big issue.

  • I have to say I was playing in one of the top 30 guilds back then and I cleared everything in Vanilla till mid of Cataclysm when I lost interest in raiding 5-6 times a week and offraid preparing for the next raid to come. In the LFG chat I constantly see people complaining that the game is too easy and that people back then were terrible at playing WoW and had no clue. The truth though is, we had to learn every mechanics first, computers and internet connections weren't that good and some players had difficulties with playing with 39 other players at the same time due to their low-end computers.

    I remember in BWL we didn't get passed Razorgore the first couple of weeks due to 20 people having had disconnects throughout the encounter and couldn't log in. We noticed when certain encounters were started during prime-time (Vaelastrasz or Thaddius) and had to start our raids really early to pass these bosses before most of the other guilds arrive there. Guides were usually only released when enough guilds passed a boss and YT videos or streams weren't a thing back then so we had to learn the encounter through trial & attempts.

    Nowadays all the mechanics are known beforehand, we know exactly what is required in AQ40 or Naxx and can prepare exactly for this encounter. And most of those "top" guilds now played for years on private servers and abused the test server as well. There are even dedicated sites on the Web that tell you exactly which items you should obtain and wear for which encounters. There is no brain power needed further. The same with questing. Install an addon and just execute the most efficient route that get you to level 60 in almost no-time. It is no wonder why people quit playing, and yes, plenty of guilds are recruiting as there are to many guilds with to few players in it to sustain a secure 40 men raid.

    We regularly clear MC and Ony with less than 30 people and downed Razorgore and Vaelastrasz with only 37 players (just a single day of raiding per week due to RL time constraints). Most of the people I run with do not have the time and interest to go all out and obtain every buff and potion they could potentially use (especially world buffs which give an immense boost!), some even wear green items which can be replaced easily by dungeon grinding, though they simply don't have the time to play everyday for 3-4 hours and classic IS time demanding.

    I am definitely not jealous of those "pro" guilds as I've been there and I've done that already in the past and I still feel that this was more of an accomplishment back then compared to what these guys are doing now even though it is impressive to see that they were able to kill all the content within the first 6 days or clear BWL now in less than 40 minutes in one go. But, please, don't forget that we don't play the actual vanilla WoW system – we play a multiple time nerfed content that looks and somehow behaves like the vanilla WoW though it is still in a nerfed version (more debuf-slots, less HP of mobs, less damage dealt, …). So, please stop using every damn buff this game has to offer, every addon (especially boss-mods and threatmeters) if you think the game is to easy. Those things just came up over time and make the game easier and easier. And also stop telling others that people had no clue back then … you are just benefiting of those peoples effort and endurance the put into the game back then …

  • Yeah they are. Not saying my guild but if your not BiS normally people treat you differently. I know this because I started to do it and I feel bad haha. See a guy in greens? Must be a noob. It's basically like the gear score raiders in WotLK.

    Not to mention since all the data is presented on WoWhead for BiS you have warriors opting to go with leather gear for DPS instead of going full plate. That to me is absurd since as a rogue I'd lose huge upgrades to someone who can use gear that's 2 tiers above mine.

  • My biggest problem with min-maxers is not that they exist. It's that they first draw in other people into their game, speed through it, get bored and then blame everything on the game and how boring it is and how much content it is lacking. It was the main philosophy of retail and unfortunately has transferred to classic.

  • I rushed to 60, dungeon grinded all of it. I got my pre-bis within the first month I think? and I have honestly never had more fun in WoW then the first say 2 months of classic. Then I was completely burnt out and I still haven't even touched it since. "Rushing" has ruined classic for me, and I won't let it ruin BC for me as well.

  • I only have one character with full T1, and 1 piece of T2.

    The problem for me, was when Classic launched, all my friends rushed to 60. I did too, naturally, to play with them. But once they quit, due to the game "Having not enough content to stick by" I was left alone.
    We created a guild early, together, got around 280 people in. But the guild was abandoned when my friends quit.

    Though, I found this amazing guild who let me join. Very social and active. I can ALWAYS help or get help. Not a hardcore guild either.

    But man, I miss leveling slowly with friends…

  • To be honest, I play with my sister and her husband and we min/max. I Play a priest, Sister is Ret pally, and my Brother in law is Prot war. We did every wing of SM by 35 multiple times (3man).

    We just completed Uldaman including Archadeus on our first try (3man). 47priest , 45war, 45pal. They are our mains.

  • I dont think that there is a BAD way to play a Game.
    I play in a semi-Progress Guild where we have rules about Talents, specializations, Buffs and more. And yes, you have to perform well!

    Yes, we could clear BWL without anything of this but we just want to play as effectiv as possible
    with an acceptable effort.
    And we all have a lot of Fun while Raiding, Farming, Twinking and more 🙂

  • I don't know what vanilla you all were playing, but by the time I had reached 60 and was 2-3 raid dungeons in it's not like the game was still a grand mystery to me. I was trying to squeeze every bit of potential out of my warrior to progress in raids. The "vanilla experience" I keep hearing about accounted for maybe 1/4 of vanillas lifespan.

  • A lot of people powered as best they could to 60 back in Vanilla, we just didn't have the knowledge and tools to do it efficiently. Now with the tools, it's easier to power… mindsets haven't changed, knowledge has. Some people take their time, some speed, neither is right or wrong and if one side thinks it's superior to the other you're a muppet. People play the game how they want and just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it's wrong.

  • General populace of games like this have always been like that. Even when classic was just wow. Ppl just know more now thanks to idiot streamers. Those whiny fucks you find all across the game have always been the majority

  • I quit because the min-maxers create an "all or nothing" experience so casual players cannot enjoy it. Original release Classic was fun because there was no Min-maxing, people were still figuring this stuff out which was the fun of it. Now everyone rolls with the same gear and builds which makes it boring because there is no experimentation and discovery in the game anymore.

  • WoW classic is still a better game than retail depending on what you like to do. The PvP in retail is so far from the kind of PvP that got me addicted in TBC and the fact that once I grind my gear in classic in Naxx I can enjoy the game and bg forever and not have to worry about grinding gear as a new season comes out. I look forward to an end to my character.

  • I played at my own pace only to See all my friend's min maxing and clearing MC before I Hit lvl 50. They stopped during p2, so I left soon as well never making it to 60… 🙁

  • I've not even gotten a character to 60 yet. I've been enjoying levelling a few different classes on both factions testing them out before bothering to spend huge amounts of time on 1 class to main (which I think will be the druid that i've just started to level up, funnily enough it originally was my plan to main but I wanted to try some others out). I don't have as much time to play as I did in vanilla so committing to 1 class to the end level grind needs to be worth it for me. But hell, I'm certainly enjoying what I'm doing!

  • WoW is first and foremost a pay to play dress up simulator. I don't WANT to wear some T2, blue robes and green shoulders to heal. I want lightning wolves coming out of my shoulders. But i can't. RIP.

  • I got to 60, started raiding. Cleared MC and onyxia a few times. Then the guild wanted everyone to parse high with full consumes; they wanted to coach anyone with low parses. I had to bail for that shit.

  • I don't think min-maxers are ruining the game. But it is harder to find people who want to play at a slower ("normal") pace

    When 80% of groups are powerleveling and speedruns and you just want a good old fashioned Ulda dungeon crawl with a balanced, appropriately leveled group you might need a few hours to put that group together

    That's the place I'm at now but I've done the hardcore thing on private servers and I respect it. Just not for me anymore

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